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#963838 - 21/02/2011 12:19 Re: Fraccing or Fracking - Natural Gas and your farm [Re: Helen]
Greg Sorenson Offline
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Registered: 05/11/2005
Posts: 3256
Loc: Canberra!
I know that both Tony Windsor and Bob Brown have been pushing for a halt to this type of mining until a thorough examination is carried out to ensure that everything is ship shape- SEE LINK BELOW. Perhaps a modified version of fracking, or other means can mean that a better way can be sought. Bloody stupid of the QLD and NSW governments from signing up on something they don't understand.

LINKY

Originally Posted By: Helen
Hey Greg,

I've posted the link to this thread on Adelaide Now's Facebook page, as well as my own. I really think that the media needs to make a huge song and dance about this. It's yet another money grab by big companies wanting to rape our land without thought for the environmental consequences.

I'm not a fan of Bob Brown, but if he's not aware of this situation, then he really needs to be, as do the other independents in parliament. frown
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#964073 - 21/02/2011 16:25 Re: Fraccing or Fracking - Natural Gas and your farm [Re: Greg Sorenson]
ozone doug Online   content
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Thanks for the heads up for four corners tonight ant, This will be intresting .I will be steaming by the end probably . I worry about our aquafiers .Doug
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#964201 - 21/02/2011 17:58 Re: Fraccing or Fracking - Natural Gas and your farm [Re: Greg Sorenson]
AzzaG Offline
Cloud Gazer

Registered: 20/02/2011
Posts: 37
Loc: Central Queensland
I have been following this thread for a couple of days now, just like I follow the CSG industry in the media... There is a lot of stories getting thown around out there these days, that well... are just so far from the truth... First things first, I work in the CSG industry and in particular I work for Arrow Energy in the Bowen Basin in Queensland, I see the workings inside and out of a major CSG company everyday, so I know what "really happens" and not what people think, assume or compare to the American Natural Gas Industry... I deal with the Landowner's on a day-today basis, so I now how they feel in the Bowen Basin about the industry... I can only speak on my dealing's with Arrow and not other companies, so here goes...

1: Hydro Fracturing "Fraccing": Arrow Energy does not undertake in Fraccing activities in the Surat Basin.. Why cause there is know need for it, the coal permeability (how soft and how easily water in the coal seam disperses) is so good, that it does not require any stimulation of the coal seam what so ever, A single vertical well is drilled down into the coal-seam and away we go... Yes Arrow does undertake Fraccing in the Bowen Basin as the coal geology and structure warrants some type of stimulation...

2: How is Fraccing done??: First of all do not, and I cannot stress enough do not draw any comparisons between the Australian Coal Seam Gas industries fraccing and the American Shale Natural Gas Industries fraccing, they are 2 very different kettle of fish, different types of gas, different methods of extracting the gas, and quite frankly the American Industry is so out of control and so greedy it even scares the hell out of me... Fraccing is done by pumping water and 3 different grades of sand down a well at about 2000-3000psi (which is pre-mixed into a 4mg/l dam beside the well group, usually 4mg/l is sufficent for up to 5 wells), the idea of this is to fracture and open up the cleats of the coal seam to allow the gas to flow much easier and faster rate, the sand moves into the open cleats and holds them open as the water is then steadily pumped away (thus the different grades of sand so they dont clump together and allow the gas to flow through it much easier)... Now i hear people going, what about all the truck loads of chemicals, well the fact is there are very little involved (they make up about 0.5 percent of the fraccing mix), the primary 2 Arrow use currently are "Acetic Acid" (the basis of vinegar) and "gutaraldehyde" (used in hospitals to disinfect equipment), their primary function is to protect to steel well casing and the cement mix from damage and corrosion, and the also assit in intiating the fraccing process... Arrow do not use and have never used "any" products that contain the BTEX group of chemicals and I am not aware of any CSG company in Ausralia that do, people do need to remember that BTEX does occur quite often naturally in the Coal Seam...

3: Postives and Negatives of Fraccing: Believe it or not Arrow have found fraccing over the past few years to be relatively useless, we have trialed it many times and have come to the same conclusion that gas flow is no better when fracced compared to the, single vertical well in the Surat Basin and the vertical well with 2 laterals drilled into the vertical from 1.2km away in the Bowen Basin... Arrow will be more than likely phasing out Hydro Fracturing in the next 12 months with only a handful of them on this years drilling schedule... Yes the are always doubts whether companies can successfully confine the fractures in the coal seam itself, however that said the risk of a fracture bursting into a water aquifer is slim to none, why is this so, cause fraccing is not performed any shallower than 300m and most of the time at depths greater than 450m well, past your standard water bore depth of 150m maximum... If it does occur put it this way, the way in which gas is held in the coal seam is via water pressure, so therefore the idea of a gas well is to to take away the water from only the coal seam in order to reduce the pressure of water in the coal and allow the gas to flow out naturally, the well will not produce gas if there is to much water in the coal, so therefore is you have a burst fracture channeling water back into the coal seam as you take it away the well is useless, as the gas cannot flow cause the water just keeps on flowing in... So the well is un-equiped, cemented from top to bottom, and cut off 1.5m below the ground and abandoned...

Anyway, if you have any questions about the CSG industry at all, please do not hesitate to ask about them in this thread so I can answer them to the best of my knowledge... I hope this helps a bit...
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#964440 - 21/02/2011 21:44 Re: Fraccing or Fracking - Natural Gas and your farm [Re: AzzaG]
Helen Offline
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Registered: 07/11/2001
Posts: 9631
Loc: Mid North, SA
Thankyou for your input AzzaG. Sadly, the 4 Corners story does not do any of the CSG companies any favours. I'm inclined to believe the word of the average everyday bloke, rather than that of corporations trying to cover their backsides. frown

Just the mere fact that companies can just come onto someones land to put CSG wells in willie-nilly, suggests that this problem is wider spread than even you are lead to believe and much more damaging to the environment (both above and below ground) than you've been made aware.
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#964490 - 21/02/2011 22:43 Re: Fraccing or Fracking - Natural Gas and your farm [Re: Helen]
AzzaG Offline
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Registered: 20/02/2011
Posts: 37
Loc: Central Queensland
Well I was not going to say it before but I will say it now after the 4 corners story QGC "Queensland's Greediest Company" they have always been like that... I won't lie, you are right Helen that story does not do any favours for any CSG companies, but I will tell you now I will defend Arrow Energy and Santos until the day I die...

Companies like QGC give the rest of us a bad name, others who are trying to do the right thing and being put in the same basket as the likes of AGL and QGC... Not once have I ever lied to a landholder, and I will never will, if I cannot answer a question, its not because I don't want to tell them, its because I honestly do not know, but I will always find the answer and let them know and I will not leave them in the dark...

I had heard the rumors that QGC were only paying $250 per well per year... And that my friends is a joke, although 4 corners said each well makes the company $1,000,000 a year I would not agree with that, I would suggest probably a little less than half of that figure (which is still a lot of moneny)... I am basing that figure on Arrow Energy gas profit last year of $170,000,000 and Arrow has about 600-650 production wells... I know one landholder up here has roughly 110 production wells (consisting of one vertical and 2 lateral wells) on his 120,000 acre property and his pay packet from us each year is about $1,200,000 per year escalating at CPI...

I would suggest my job is about to get much harder, even though I am working for a company that I believe has its morals in order (believe me I would tell you if I thought otherwise) my job is tough at the best of times... I try to keep and unwanted relationships between Arrow and landholders stable, and thanks to other "cowboys" in the industry, I may as well start looking for a new job... Yes Australia should be worried if QGC keep going the way they are, but hey they are owned by BG "British Gas," guess the poms are stuffing us in more than just the cricket...

Any questions I will be happy to answer...
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#964494 - 21/02/2011 22:49 Re: Fraccing or Fracking - Natural Gas and your farm [Re: Helen]
ozone doug Online   content
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Registered: 06/11/2006
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Loc: Roma SW QLD Eye to the S Wes...
Thanks to AzzaG for your input as well . And get a view from your side of things . The facts that whatever industry there will be always be accidents or things go wrong ,Helen pretty well covers what i thought too .Doug
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#964509 - 21/02/2011 23:08 Re: Fraccing or Fracking - Natural Gas and your farm [Re: ozone doug]
ant Offline
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Registered: 05/10/2002
Posts: 9063
Loc: Overlooking ACT at 848m
cracker of a story (as usual). Seeing whole communities of normal people getting angry and getting mobilised was a big wake-up. This is a big issue right now.

AzzaG has some interesting points and it would be great for all of us if the issue turned out to just be a cowboy company.

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#964523 - 21/02/2011 23:21 Re: Fraccing or Fracking - Natural Gas and your farm [Re: ozone doug]
AzzaG Offline
Cloud Gazer

Registered: 20/02/2011
Posts: 37
Loc: Central Queensland
Just in regards to Helen's comment again, I will believe whatever I chose to believe... Companies will not sway my thoughts in any way shape or form... But I deal with landholders, drilling rigs, gas wells and compensation agreements on a daily basis, so yes I do know a bit about the industry... I have not met one landowner that I have not liked, they have all been great to me, yes we have our problems and we have dis-agreements every now and then but the fact is we exist together, and we do our best to exist peacefully...

Landowners are smart, they will ask the right questions to get all the facts, so therefore I have to ready for any of them (after all it is my job to know them) and I have always answered them truthfully... I have spent the last 3 years around these drilling rigs on a daily basis and not once have I seen the chemicals around or used on any of our drilling rigs like the ones shown on 4 corners around QGC, our rigs are not even any where near that size, our well set-ups are completely different, and we do not require wells to be any where near that close together...

All I ask is (as hard as it saying it after watching 4 corners) do not tar all companies with the same brush... I am your everyday Australian bloke, I work each day, I go home to my partner each night, I work hard but I play harder... Believe me now, i get just as upset watching these programs as the rest of you do, watching "cowboys" wreck it for everyone else... But again I ask do not put all companies into the one basket...
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#964551 - 22/02/2011 00:33 Re: Fraccing or Fracking - Natural Gas and your farm [Re: AzzaG]
Greg Sorenson Offline
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Registered: 05/11/2005
Posts: 3256
Loc: Canberra!
Thanks Azza for your experiences at Arrow Energy, it certainly needs to be said that there are 2 sides to a story, and you're more than welcome to have your input here. By the crux of what you are saying is that compared to the US we have better practises in place currently, which i certainly hope will remain the case. I've seen Gasland, i assure those who see it, will walk away thinking that it would be better to live here in Australia than there!

So, i guess this comes to my first question as you are better equipped to answer this than most. From what i've read thus far, the Australian standard outlining Hydraulic Fracturing comes with approx 1200 conditions that are enforceable which would include drilling procedures, wells construction, drilling fluids, waste disposal, well maintainability etc etc.
- But what if wells aren't built to the Australian standard? I mean it happens all the time in other industries, people taking short cuts, breakdowns in accountability, and procedures. I work in the building industry myself and i've seen it all, there are some real cowboys out there. Local governments only have limited resources, and largely it comes down to industry quality control. What happens if the casing fails, steel reinforcement rusts and cracks appear in the concrete, even many years after it's long been forgotten about?

What MPa is the concrete and what is it's expected lifespan? 100 years, 200? On 4 corners tonight there was a case in point whereby a problem Well started off with a leak, they came and fixed it. Then the ground around the well started to seep water from below with methane bubbles coming up from the ground. Till this very day it still hasn't been been able to be fixed. Could this be the casing failing?

Is it easy to clean up the ground water if it does become contaminated? What's the policy for say Arrow Energy for argument sake?

What if you have a group of cowboys who do the wrong thing and dump waste water where they shouldn't? What are the penalties and are each employee responsible personally? Or does it fall back on the company? I remember many years ago when i work in a factory when a dimwit poured his bucket of dirty water down a drain which the EPA found in a random check - he personally got the sack and the company got a 20,000 fine. Huge company, so it didn't matter much, more of a bad publicity thing for them.

Another question that i have is associated with water bores within a couple km's of a drill site - on 4 corners tonight and on 60 minutes last year, people have showed where methane gas have found it's way into their bores directly after drilling has taken place nearby. What would be causing this? Is it a malfunction of the casing, or could it be that there was a natural weakness in the geology surround the drill site? How can this be if the water bore is 150m deep, yet the fraccing is well below that?

What happens to all the recovered waste water afterwards, when it's done properly? What does Arrow Energy do - is there a process that cleans the water so it can be recycled? I've seen images of waste water ponds that are lined with membranes to contain it within a pond. How long does the water sit there? What happens to the pond and water membrane when the area is finished? What happens if there is a spill from a leaking pond? Would a pond like that, should it leak, be a problem for the ground water in the area?

Evaporation tanks - in the US it seems they have them everywhere. Do we use them here and can you describe what they are used for?

I have many more questions, and believe me when i say it, that i am in no way suggesting you Azza or anyone in Arrow are involved in any malpractice. I just want some clarification on some specific items at this stage. So i'll only throw a few your way this time round:)



Edited by Greg Sorenson (22/02/2011 00:41)
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#964686 - 22/02/2011 09:48 Re: Fraccing or Fracking - Natural Gas and your farm [Re: ant]
Pucci. Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 01/02/2011
Posts: 77
Loc: Brisbane.
Originally Posted By: ant
You should turn this into an article, Greg, and start hawking it to the papers. It's a big issue that is sleeping, because the people affected are not numerous, being rural. But the knock-on effects are, as you've shown, enormous and once the damage is done, there is zilch that can be done to fix it.


I agree Ant. Greg's opening post would make a great article to send to editors of some of the major Australian newspapers. The only way ppl can be mobilised to enact change, is by presenting loads of factual information to as wider group as possible.

Greg: Great topic, and thanks for bringing this to the forum. I too, watched 4 corners last night in horror, and I also have many questions. There's a very extensive and detailed list of resources on the 4 Corners Website, specifically with regards to this issue. I highly recommend going through it before they take it down or into archives.

In the mean time, I'm going to do some more reading up on it. Thanks again smile



Edited by Pucci. (22/02/2011 09:51)
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#964690 - 22/02/2011 09:56 Re: Fraccing or Fracking - Natural Gas and your farm [Re: Pucci.]
ant Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 05/10/2002
Posts: 9063
Loc: Overlooking ACT at 848m
It was horrible watching those people whose farms were to be wrecked by those gas wells. Imagine the feeling of being unable to prevent these troglodytes trampling all over your place, drilling deep holes and building ugly and potentially harmful well infrastructure over them. Turning your place into an industrial facility. The lady who had worked to bring her farm up to organic standards was particuarly affected.

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#964701 - 22/02/2011 10:15 Re: Fraccing or Fracking - Natural Gas and your farm [Re: ant]
Pucci. Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 01/02/2011
Posts: 77
Loc: Brisbane.
Yeah, it was disturbing to watch.

While this is set to make a s**** load of money (and therefore a lot harder to resist against) I think about the various ventures that - at the very least - brought upon some change to practices. I think that's about as far as 'people power' will be able to get on this one, but I'd be very happy to do what I can!

You're looking a bit green there Ant. Hope you feel better soon smile
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#964707 - 22/02/2011 10:32 Re: Fraccing or Fracking - Natural Gas and your farm [Re: Pucci.]
Greg Sorenson Offline
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Registered: 05/11/2005
Posts: 3256
Loc: Canberra!
I think what Azza was trying to say in his post was that there are good and bad companies. It's definitely a company culture that produces sound practices.
The important thing is the regulatory authority and the resources that they have, needs to be in balance with the industry itself. Big money, means that there
should be big consequences. I'm doubtful that this will happen though.
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#964739 - 22/02/2011 11:47 Re: Fraccing or Fracking - Natural Gas and your farm [Re: Greg Sorenson]
AzzaG Offline
Cloud Gazer

Registered: 20/02/2011
Posts: 37
Loc: Central Queensland
Some very good questions in there Greg, and these are the questions that people should be asking companies like Arrow... I would much rather people ask me these questions than just assume so i thank you for that... The question about the MPa of the concrete I am unsure of, and I will definietly get back to you on...

1: 1200 Conditions and Regulations: At the end of the day it comes down to this, how well are they enforced by the government??? Everyone can have there own opinion and mine is, that there are not policed well enough... Sure you can have these rules but if you dont want to police them, than it leaves the door open for cowboy companies... I should say this, I am not suggesting in anyway that Arrow is perfect, we have had our stuff ups (however nothing like what you sore on 4 corners last night), for example Arrow have outlawed the use of "polymer" in our wells about 6 years ago (polymer makes a well easier to cement for drilling companies and sets it in place faster, however the cement bonds quickly break apart), and about 6 months ago we caught a drilling company using it, at the time we could not afford to tear up there contract (much to my disgust) due to rig shortages in the Bowen Basin associated with last years exceptional rainfall up here... However we did force the company to fix and re-cement the well properly at there own cost, and yes the job was then completed fine, fortunetly we discovered this before they made there way into the coal seam, so all harm was avoided...

2: Casing Fails: Yes if a casing fails it is difficult to fix, but I wouldn't exactly say its hard, given the nature of how the steel casing is cemented into place, using a "U" tube effect it can pose some problems... However stopping the gas from flowing or stopping water from flowing into the well is simple, all that is required is one of 2 things flood the well with water from top to bottom, or cement the well from top to bottom (this is why I cannot understand QGC with the well on 4 corners, it was leaking that bad it should have been cemented and abandoned, why couldn't they do this?? I am not sure, but my guess is that kept patching the casing so it could be left in service and still produce gas, but what it really needed was cementing and abandoning... Arrow have had wells leak, (not to the extent on 4 corners, but none the less we have had leaking wells) but it is as simple as this, if you we cannot fix it permanently we will always "shut it down..."

3: What if Arrow had cowboy contractors? The fact is, we have had them like I explained with the polymer example... Another example is when an absolute idiot from a drilling company discharged drilling lubricant into a landholders dam, I was mortified when I heard this had happened... However the drilling company had there contract torn up pretty much instantly, we made good on the dam and trucked in about 5-6 mg/l of potable water, as for the fine from the government, I am not aware that we were fined at all but we probably should have been... In some ways I think Arrow can be tougher on staff and contractors regarding issues with landholders, if I had my way anyway who deliberatly left a gate open would lose their job, but anyway that is just my opinion... The law says if we bugger it, we must make it good, if we drain and aquifer we will drill and new one, and I dearly hope that we will never have to do this... The fact is here, the law is black and white what we can and cannot do, but the enforcers are no where to be found, and until the government start punishing those who need it, companies like QGC will keep running wild...

4: Water Bores Leaking Gas: I believe there could be 2 possible reason's for this, 1. Coal Seams vary in depth, structure and gradiant, just because a coal seam is 350m deep 5km away, doesn't mean it will be underneath where you are standing... The 60 mintues show last year I can easily explain, those 2 bores where both licenced to drill into the Wallowan Coal Measures down near Dalby, big problem... The way in which gas is held in the coal is via water pressure, therefore if you reduce the water pressure in the coal the gas will flow naturally... Gas would have been coming out those bores for years, but do not get me wrong, if a gas company is extracting gas further away in the same deeper seam it will only make the problem worse... That said there is a simple solution, "steel case waterbores where they intersect coal seams" however another big problems, under laws set by the government it is highly illegal for steel to be in or left in a coal seam, a gas well has no steel in the coal, only perferated tubing to allow water to be sucked in and the gas to flow up the well... 2: No one "usually" extracts gas any shallower than 250m as gas is not held in the coal very well and "oxidises" out of the coal into the overlying structure before it goes into the atmosphere and this all happens naturally, however noticed I used the word usually, maybe some company is telling porkey pies about where they are extracting gas, and if they are extracting it around the 150m mark, then that could mean serious harm to some water acquifers...

5: Water Storage Tanks in the USA: Yes I am aware of companies in Australia using similar tanks, they are simply designed to store coal seam water, coal seam water is quite salty, it has about 1/3 of the salinity count of the ocean usually, in some places around Dalby and other area it is quite clean and can be used straight out of the ground for irrigation and the likes, but not usually, Gas wells filter the left over methane from the water before discharging it into these tanks, however that said, they filter it, there will always be some left in the water, therefore the tanks need to vent the excess methane out, it might look like a lot but it is really not... But you never no, some companies may store more than just "water" in these tanks, but boy I hope not... Arrow Energy do not use these tanks, we use bulk storage evaporation dams, on our production field in the Bowen Basin we have 2, 100mg/l dams and one 200mg/l dam.. And probably up to 10 smaller 5-10 mg/l dams about, around our exploration areas we would probably have another 12-15 5mg/l dams, these dams are all fully lined to prevent water from leaking into the underneath... In Dalby we currently have a Reverse Osmosis plant in full operational use to treat the water for general use... One thing tha annoyed me was when Dalby was very low on water in 2009 I believe Arrow actually offered our water for free to the council, but we could not guarantee it for human consumption straight out of our Reverse Osmosis plant, however we were prepared to run all the pipelines to the water treatment plants so it could be treated for human consumption, however the council did not want a bar of it, and wanted us to guarantee it straight out of the RO plant, which is something we could not risk... In Moranbah we are getting our approvals in place now for an RO plant, and are looking at the possilbilty of installing 2 large centre-pivots, to irrigate crops to do some good with this water... Arrow are also looking at ways of injecting excess "brine" leftover salt and stuff from the RO plant back into the coal seam, but this is proving far to costly for little effect...

I hope this answers your questions Greg, if I see more I will endevour to answer them
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#964778 - 22/02/2011 12:37 Re: Fraccing or Fracking - Natural Gas and your farm [Re: AzzaG]
ant Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 05/10/2002
Posts: 9063
Loc: Overlooking ACT at 848m
(busy reading AzzaG's stuff... I hope Arrow are going to recognise your good efforts on their behalf AzzaG!).

I don't think tough consequences are going to stop bad practice... look at Hardies and the asbestos. Once the damage is done, it's done. I think there needs to be a LOT more up-front regulation and scrutiny. You can't just clean up the Artesian Basin once it's contaminated.

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#964779 - 22/02/2011 12:38 Re: Fraccing or Fracking - Natural Gas and your farm [Re: AzzaG]
ozone doug Online   content
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 06/11/2006
Posts: 1514
Loc: Roma SW QLD Eye to the S Wes...
Thanks AzzaG for that insight , Gives us a lesson on how it works and things done .Doug
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Cheers Doug. 491 Doug/ uhf ch50 and ch40 When severe weather
BOM Stormspotter G0388 Roma S W Queensland Formerly Redcliffe.
https://www.wunderground.com/personal-weather-station/dashboard?ID=IQUEENSL852

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#964851 - 22/02/2011 14:33 Re: Fraccing or Fracking - Natural Gas and your farm [Re: ozone doug]
Greg Sorenson Offline
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Registered: 05/11/2005
Posts: 3256
Loc: Canberra!
Thanks Azza for your honesty and a great deal of depth to your info. Really appreciate it. Coming from yourself as well, i totally agree better government monitoring needs to come into play. Seems like it could be a pink batts scenario on a far larger scale all over again;(
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#964891 - 22/02/2011 15:43 Re: Fraccing or Fracking - Natural Gas and your farm [Re: Greg Sorenson]
AzzaG Offline
Cloud Gazer

Registered: 20/02/2011
Posts: 37
Loc: Central Queensland
Thanks guys, like I said any questions do not be afraid to ask... I just wanted 2 inject some facts into the debate, and give people the information to make up there own minds... I do firmly believe that this industry can be a great industry, but I do not look at it through rose-coloured glasses, I also know that if it is not done the right, the damage can be nothing short of disasterous...

Agree with you Greg about the Pink Bats scheme, unfortunetly I had a great young mate taken from us in November 2009 thanks to this scheme, but thats a whole other agruement...
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Hoping for good weather everytime you go fishing is like waiting for the government to announce tax cuts... Its not going to happen

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#966824 - 28/02/2011 07:07 Re: Fraccing or Fracking - Natural Gas and your farm [Re: AzzaG]
Helen Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/11/2001
Posts: 9631
Loc: Mid North, SA
Interesting story from the New York Times this morning and well worth reading all 5 pages:

Regulation Lax as Gas Wells’ Tainted Water Hits Rivers

...and whilst this article pertains to the USA, one has to wonder just what the heads of these companies are not telling us!!! frown
_________________________
2017 YTD - 67.8mm Yearly Average - 403mm
Jan - 32.8mm (10mm) / Feb - 35.0mm (10mm) / Mar - - (15mm) / Apr - - (31mm)
May - - (46mm) / June - - (51mm) / July - - (59mm) / Aug - - (54mm)
Sept - - (48mm) / Oct - - (38mm) / Nov - - (23mm) / Dec - - (18mm)
Total 2016 - 637.2mm



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#966893 - 28/02/2011 10:42 Re: Fraccing or Fracking - Natural Gas and your farm [Re: Helen]
ant Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 05/10/2002
Posts: 9063
Loc: Overlooking ACT at 848m
The pink batts trouble was in part the federal government's failure to predict the level of greed that could be triggered in the building industry when they injected un-regulated cash into it.

Many years have passed since the federal government ran programs direct... since the Howard government, the government has purchased services to be delivered through contracts.

Seems that corporate knowledge had exited PM&C and Environment... when you spend cash direct, you must regulate it or, the pink batts scandal happens. Cowboys pop out of the woodwork and people get hurt (and even die).

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