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#977920 - 22/03/2011 21:12 Re: Japan (including TOKYO) Tsunami Warning [Re: Steven]
Steven Offline
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Registered: 19/04/2006
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Loc: 上海,ߑ...
More major aftershocks:
Occurred at (JST) Latitude(degree) Longitude(degree) Depth Magnitude Region Name
18:44 JST 22 Mar 2011 39.8N 143.8E 10km 6.2 Sanriku Oki

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#978151 - 23/03/2011 14:52 Re: Japan (including TOKYO) Tsunami Warning [Re: Steven]
explorer Offline
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Registered: 29/01/2011
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Loc: Coolum Beach, Qld

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#978493 - 24/03/2011 16:18 Re: Japan (including TOKYO) Tsunami Warning [Re: explorer]
Steven Offline
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Registered: 19/04/2006
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Very useful graphical tool displaying the 743* (recent earthquakes with more to come) near Japan:

http://www.newscientist.com/embedded/japan-quake

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#978548 - 24/03/2011 19:34 Re: Japan (including TOKYO) Tsunami Warning [Re: Steven]
Steven Offline
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Loc: 上海,ߑ...
Another major aftershock Miyagi Prefecture: 13 minutes ago...

Occurred at (JST) Latitude(degree) Longitude(degree) Depth Magnitude Region Name
17:21 JST 24 Mar 2011 39.1N 142.4E 20 km 6.1 Iwate-ken Oki

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#978596 - 24/03/2011 21:00 Re: Japan (including TOKYO) Tsunami Warning [Re: Steven]
Cannonball Offline
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Registered: 23/02/2011
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Loc: Redbank Plains(Ipswich) QLD
Update on Radiation from Fukushima:

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/23_35.html

Extract:

Radiation could affect people outside 30km zone

Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano says computer forecasts show that radiation leaking from a nuclear plant could pose a hazard to people outside its 30-kilometer zone.

Edano said at a news conference on Wednesday that a computer forecast system has shown that radiation levels in some areas outside the 30-kilometer zone would exceed 100 millisieverts, which is the level that could affect the human thyroid if a person is exposed to it outdoors for 24 hours.

Edano cited a lack of data and the need for more precise calculations, and said there is no need for immediate evacuation or to seek shelter indoors.

At the same time, he urged people living downwind from the plant to stay indoors as much as possible and keep the windows shut as a precaution.

The computer system, called SPEEDI, predicts how radioactive substances will spread in case of radiation leakage from nuclear power plants, based on measurements taken at various locations, prevailing winds and other weather conditions.

SPEEDI data can be used to draw up evacuation plans for residents around power plants in case of accidents.

Wednesday, March 23, 2011 18:55 +0900 (JST)

.

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#978597 - 24/03/2011 21:01 Re: Japan (including TOKYO) Tsunami Warning [Re: Cannonball]
Cannonball Offline
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In the above article I'm not sure if it is 100 millisieverts an hour or not. They do not specify. A bit of a vague article.

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#978603 - 24/03/2011 21:12 Re: Japan (including TOKYO) Tsunami Warning [Re: Cannonball]
Cannonball Offline
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Registered: 23/02/2011
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Steven - Good article by New Scientist. I hope the Earthquakes stay out on the subduction zone without hitting a magnitude that could cause another Tsunami. It is a concern that some Earthquakes have been registered in the West but hopefully that is just going to be the odd exception to the rule.

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#978778 - 25/03/2011 11:57 Re: Japan (including TOKYO) Tsunami Warning [Re: Cannonball]
explorer Offline
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I wonder if we will ever know for sure?

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-sci-japan-quake-secrecy-20110325,0,3610246.story



Edited by explorer (25/03/2011 11:59)

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#978787 - 25/03/2011 12:25 Re: Japan (including TOKYO) Tsunami Warning [Re: explorer]
Chris #3 Offline
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Originally Posted By: explorer
I wonder if we will ever know for sure?


I don't think we can ever know for sure, but I think we'll get much more information and answers in the coming weeks/months/years.

Remember that Chernobyl basically happened in Soviet Russia poke I think they were even more tight lipped then the Japanese could ever hope to be..and we know a fair bit now!


Edited by Christopher! #3 (25/03/2011 12:26)
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#978795 - 25/03/2011 12:56 Re: Japan (including TOKYO) Tsunami Warning [Re: Chris #3]
Cannonball Offline
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Registered: 23/02/2011
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Loc: Redbank Plains(Ipswich) QLD
I posted the below a few days ago on another thread but it mat be more relevant here:


Start Of my former post:
OK. I just got off the phone to a Professor. He seems to back his calculation's but reminded me as Steven did there are other variables to consider. Excluding variables at 30000m(1m being the constant) at 160 microsieverts an hour it equates too:

144000000000 microsieverts an hour 1m from source
144000000 millisieverts an hour 1m from source
144000 sieverts an hour 1m from source

End of my former post:


Now Chernobyl was estimated at 300 Sieverts per hour initially after the explosion. I think the Professor I asked to run the numbers on Newton's Inverse Square Law may be out by 3 zeroes.

So Chernobyl Equals = 300 Sieverts Per hour
And Fukushima Equals = 144 Sieverts Per hour

So we get a measurement of nearly half sometime into the disaster which leads me to believe it was even higher.

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#978797 - 25/03/2011 12:58 Re: Japan (including TOKYO) Tsunami Warning [Re: Cannonball]
Cannonball Offline
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Registered: 23/02/2011
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Time will tell how correct this is. I hope it's wrong.


Originally Posted By: Cannonball
I posted the below a few days ago on another thread but it mat be more relevant here:


Start Of my former post:
OK. I just got off the phone to a Professor. He seems to back his calculation's but reminded me as Steven did there are other variables to consider. Excluding variables at 30000m(1m being the constant) at 160 microsieverts an hour it equates too:

144000000000 microsieverts an hour 1m from source
144000000 millisieverts an hour 1m from source
144000 sieverts an hour 1m from source

End of my former post:


Now Chernobyl was estimated at 300 Sieverts per hour initially after the explosion. I think the Professor I asked to run the numbers on Newton's Inverse Square Law may be out by 3 zeroes.

So Chernobyl Equals = 300 Sieverts Per hour
And Fukushima Equals = 144 Sieverts Per hour

So we get a measurement of nearly half sometime into the disaster which leads me to believe it was even higher.


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#978798 - 25/03/2011 12:59 Re: Japan (including TOKYO) Tsunami Warning [Re: Cannonball]
Cannonball Offline
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Registered: 23/02/2011
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Loc: Redbank Plains(Ipswich) QLD
And strangely enough the figures of my own investigation correlate with Explorer's Article:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-sci-japan-quake-secrecy-20110325,0,3610246.story

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#978833 - 25/03/2011 14:49 Re: Japan (including TOKYO) Tsunami Warning [Re: Cannonball]
Steven Offline
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Registered: 19/04/2006
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Loc: 上海,ߑ...
Yellow rain reported in the Kanto region (Tokyo).
JMA has issued a statement saying this was not caused by the nuclear emergency

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110325a7.html

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#978844 - 25/03/2011 15:15 Re: Japan (including TOKYO) Tsunami Warning [Re: Steven]
Cannonball Offline
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Registered: 23/02/2011
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Loc: Redbank Plains(Ipswich) QLD
Interesting Article:

http://theintelhub.com/2011/03/24/yellow-rain-falls-in-tokyo/

Extract:

“We all jumped in the puddles with the yellow stuff. … You don’t see (it in) the air, it doesn’t materialize. But when you see the yellow dust, you see radiation,” Antonina Sergieff said.

The accident was originally caused by a small testing error that resulted in a chain reaction in which highly pressurized steam literally blew the top off of a nuclear reactor.

The result was the release of 100 more times radiation than the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, according to the United Nations issue brief on Chernobyl.

Among the unstable elements released were iodine-131, caesium-137, strontium-90 and plutonium-239. Scientists say that exposure to such elements, especially in such high doses, impairs critical cellular functions and damages DNA.

When these elements first reached Sergieff 20 years ago, they came in the form of yellow rain.

It was not long after that residents in her hometown knew it wasn’t simply “pollen” – which is what government officials assured them, she said.

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#978907 - 25/03/2011 18:42 Re: Japan (including TOKYO) Tsunami Warning [Re: Cannonball]
explorer Offline
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Registered: 29/01/2011
Posts: 478
Loc: Coolum Beach, Qld
For the sake of Japan people I hope they are right (the officials) and it is not due to radioactivity .... but, the worrying thing is that they are saying that although the yellow is not due to the radioactivity, the rain may still be radioactive ... not harmful enough (seems to be their punch line every time an incident happens), but not the exact words that will make Tokyo residents feel nice and safe ...

What an awful situation to be in!!! and to think that, if we continue the nuclear way, it could have been us in that situation .... that shiny nuclear sweet with the bitter after taste again!!!

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#979112 - 26/03/2011 12:17 Re: Japan (including TOKYO) Tsunami Warning [Re: explorer]
Steven Offline
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Registered: 19/04/2006
Posts: 1738
Loc: 上海,ߑ...
There was another major aftershock last night located east of Honshu, Japan

Magnitude 6.4
Depth 39.2km
Time 8.36pm JST / 9.36pm AEST / 10.36pm AEDT

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#979157 - 26/03/2011 16:36 Re: Japan (including TOKYO) Tsunami Warning [Re: Steven]
Cannonball Offline
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Registered: 23/02/2011
Posts: 577
Loc: Redbank Plains(Ipswich) QLD
Interesting Article:

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-news-world/radioactive-iodine-in-sea-off-japan-20110326-1cae9.html

Extract:

In a test by the Tokyo Electric Power Company, "radioactive iodine-131 at 1250.8 times the legal limit was detected several hundred metres offshore near reactor number one," an agency official said on Saturday.

Another agency spokesman, Hidehiko Nishiyama, in a televised press conference said that the level is "relatively high" but said that the impact on marine life and seafood would be minor.

"This figure means that if you drank 500 millilitres of water containing this level of iodine it would reach the limit that a person can take in in one year, which is one millisievert.

"This is a relatively high level."



Edited by Cannonball (26/03/2011 16:38)

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#979168 - 26/03/2011 17:34 Re: Japan (including TOKYO) Tsunami Warning [Re: Cannonball]
explorer Offline
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Registered: 29/01/2011
Posts: 478
Loc: Coolum Beach, Qld
...'impact on marine life and seafood would be minor' ...

I wonder what is their definition of 'minor impact'?



Radiation now reportedly falling although reactors may be or have been leaking ... they do not have fuel, that is good, but they do have MOX which is worse and far more dangerous than the plain uranium the other reactors have ...

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/26/japan.nuclear.reactors/

Why is it so difficult to shut these things down? Lets not measure safety for what it may or may not happen, but for how quickly we can take control of the unforeseen situations ... I am sure the nuclear industry thought that no matter what, they will always have an answer and will be able to shut these things down when needed to ... it looked easy enough on paper ... but today they are discovering this task is not as easy as thought ... the reality is here speaking for itself ...

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#979173 - 26/03/2011 18:12 Re: Japan (including TOKYO) Tsunami Warning [Re: explorer]
Cannonball Offline
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Registered: 23/02/2011
Posts: 577
Loc: Redbank Plains(Ipswich) QLD
My feeling on the radiation side of this "Trifecta Disaster" is that the situation has been bad all along. At some point we will round a corner. Someone will speak up etc. As this situation remains unresolved and it is obviously out of control the truth will slowly filter out. As a minimum in the interim we are looking at a level 6. Japan has said they will not escalate the rating to more than 5 until this event is over. Some countries have already put it at a 6. Now Chernobyl was a 6 for quite some time and only got changed to a 7 retrospectively. When a large population has to go home if they are allowed certain health effects over time will be hard to cover up. If they are not allowed home like in Pripyat, Ukraine than obviously this will be pushed up to a definitive 7. The only fact they may be able to hide will be how many reator's get what rating.

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#979490 - 27/03/2011 21:43 Re: Japan (including TOKYO) Tsunami Warning [Re: Cannonball]
Chris #3 Offline
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Registered: 08/02/2009
Posts: 1175
Loc: Semaphore SA
What would be causing this?

Quote:
Neutron beam observed 13 times at crippled Fukushima nuke plant
TOKYO, March 23, Kyodo

Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Wednesday it has observed a neutron beam, a kind of radioactive ray, 13 times on the premises of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant after it was crippled by the massive March 11 quake-tsunami disaster.

TEPCO, the operator of the nuclear plant, said the neutron beam measured about 1.5 kilometers southwest of the plant's No. 1 and 2 reactors over three days from March 13 and is equivalent to 0.01 to 0.02 microsieverts per hour and that this is not a dangerous level.


Small amounts of spent fuel going critical or reacting? Not worried about radiation doses that small but just wonder what it could be.

Neutron beams only come from nuclear fission right? They speculate about that in the article and also say it could be uranium and plutonium that may have leaked from reactors?

I think it's not worth worrying about what rating on the nuclear accident scale it is yet. We won't know until we have much more information.

IMO it's no higher than a 5 at the moment. The ratings are highly subjective though...and not very specific.

Each step on the scale = 10 TIMES as bad as the previous step.

The windscale accident was pretty severe and that only got a 5.


Edited by Christopher! #3 (27/03/2011 21:45)
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