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#1012 - 05/01/2008 15:34 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
David_dup1 Offline
Member

Registered: 27/12/2002
Posts: 1296
Loc: Ferny Creek (400m)
Looks like Gascoyne Junction, Parabadoo and Meekathara all set new January record highs yesterday. There are probably others but that's a pretty good snap shot of how extreme the conditions are over inland WA ATM. Gascoyne Junction is worth watching today. Conditions are pretty similar to yesterday (in terms of heat) but a little bit of a different in winds etc could see it crack 49 or...

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#1013 - 05/01/2008 16:48 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
Rime Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/06/2001
Posts: 1444
Loc: Perth,WA
Quote:
Originally posted by David:
Looks like Gascoyne Junction, Parabadoo and Meekathara all set new January record highs yesterday. There are probably others but that's a pretty good snap shot of how extreme the conditions are over inland WA ATM. Gascoyne Junction is worth watching today. Conditions are pretty similar to yesterday (in terms of heat) but a little bit of a different in winds etc could see it crack 49 or...
With this current heat in WA, the strongest chance of it hitting 50C would occur if this air was to be pushed into SA from a strong NW'ly. With a DALR, temperatures could easily get to 50 or 50+ in the Lake Eyre region with this current air.

Paraburdoo was sitting on 46.3C as at 2:07pm with a 16 knot E'ly. That is approximately 1C higher then yesterday at the same time.

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#1014 - 06/01/2008 13:01 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
zoso-wx Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 16/09/2005
Posts: 644
Loc: Bakewell on the escarpment, st...
Always an interesting topic this

Newman in WA hit 47 rounded to 9am and it is at 524m, Paraburdoo also got 47 and it is at 410m, Meekatharra got 46 (517m), Wiluna 46 (521m) and Carnegie 46 (448m) so yes if the airmass (heat low) shifted to lower elevations as mentioned above it would be game on potentially. The other thing I wondered about this summer is where Pannawonica went lol, or why did the site stop, that was a bit of a hotspot and lowish elevation if I remember rightly.

The heat low is forecast to weaken a bit today, out to 1003 or so from the 1000/998s etc of the last 2 days so I am expecting around 45 to be the highest today, probably moreso in the Pilbara than Gascoyne or interior. Later this week sees the heat low crank up again. If there is no total clear out of the hot air then who knows. smile

Regarding Death Valleys temp, I've wondered whether Vegas temps could be used to at least give a vague idea whether that temp was even close to possible. Highest in Vegas is around 47C and it is around 600m ASL. When I was in Vegas in June/July this year, DV was consistently about 6c hotter which makes sense given DALR. LV would get 41, DV would be in paper as getting 47-48 etc. On the last day I was there, July 6 or so, Vegas got 46C or so, DV had 52-53C. Hot in anyones language, and about the highest it gets to that I have seen in 10 years of watching it is 129-130F (the 54C mark Blair mentioned earlier).

:cheers:

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#1015 - 06/01/2008 13:37 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
Thunderstruck Offline
Lightning man

Registered: 10/05/2001
Posts: 14866
Loc: Seaford Meadows, SA
Yer agree, all it will take is a strong front connected to a relatively deep trough with very dry air pulling that heat down to the lower elevations in SA and you might get your 50C. Marree, Marla, Oodnadatta, Ceduna or Kyancutta would be my picks for a shot at it. The latter two are a long way south but by god they cook. It still wouldn't surprise me if Gascoyne cracked the 50C this season, the monsonal lows are certainly going to be quite intense with some pretty low pressures through the WA heat belt. Although the true dryness with DALR will be lacking as to what SA would get. Just that advection is needed.

TS cool

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#1016 - 06/01/2008 15:13 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
Rime Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/06/2001
Posts: 1444
Loc: Perth,WA
Quote:
Originally posted by zoso-wx:
Always an interesting topic this

Regarding Death Valleys temp, I've wondered whether Vegas temps could be used to at least give a vague idea whether that temp was even close to possible. Highest in Vegas is around 47C and it is around 600m ASL. When I was in Vegas in June/July this year, DV was consistently about 6c hotter which makes sense given DALR. LV would get 41, DV would be in paper as getting 47-48 etc. On the last day I was there, July 6 or so, Vegas got 46C or so, DV had 52-53C. Hot in anyones language, and about the highest it gets to that I have seen in 10 years of watching it is 129-130F (the 54C mark Blair mentioned earlier).

:cheers:
I believe the official highest temperature recorded at Death Valley (other then the 56.7C) is 53.9C. This was recorded using a more acceptable standard of instrumentation. I would expect that this temperature is most likely the highest temperature ever recorded, not the 58C recorded at Libya.

Blair maybe able to correct me, but I do think there is a record of approximately 54C somewhere in the middle east also.

EDIT: It is interesting to note the temperature difference between Las Vegas and Death Valley. Death Valley is approximately 50 metres below sea level. Given that LV is 600 metres, the 6 - 7 degree difference between DV and LV would be expected. If there was a valley as low as Death Valley in Pilbara, under the present conditions 50+ temperatures would easily be achievable in the present conditions.

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#1017 - 06/01/2008 18:45 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 14156
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
Learmonth (Exmouth WA - 1992 in March) wet globe temp from our RAP (Army) medical tent hit 50C during Para Continuation Training.

Now I know it wasn't in a Stevenson Box but when the tarmac beneath a C130 Hercules starts to melt and the aircraft starts sinking into the ground it is damn hot in anyones language.
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#1018 - 07/01/2008 11:16 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
pete28 Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 08/01/2007
Posts: 1114
Loc: Christchurch, New Zealand
There has also been observations made by US satellites in Iran during the past few years during mid to late July indicating surface temperatures close to 60C...all unofficial of course!!

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#1019 - 07/01/2008 11:21 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
zathras Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 29/05/2004
Posts: 353
Loc: Wallan, Vic
The talk of Stevenson screens, and the dodgy Cloncurry reading with a southerly sun has got me thinking.

How are the screens aligned in the tropics when the sun heads north and south?

I always understood the door was meant to open to the shady side, ie south in most of the country, but this changes up north in summer.
Double doored screen perhaps?

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#1020 - 07/01/2008 11:58 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
Blair Trewin Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 13/07/2001
Posts: 3699
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Quote:
Originally posted by zoso-wx:
The other thing I wondered about this summer is where Pannawonica went lol, or why did the site stop, that was a bit of a hotspot and lowish elevation if I remember rightly.

Pannawonica stopped reporting temperatures in September 2005 because the observer resigned and no-one was available to replace her - a bit of an occupational hazard for remote locations (and in an area with several places higher on the priority list for AWS installation).

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#1021 - 07/01/2008 23:49 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
Grant Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 18/08/2002
Posts: 1522
Loc: Greta NSW, 70m ASL
Quote:
Originally posted by zathras:
How are the screens aligned in the tropics when the sun heads north and south?

I always understood the door was meant to open to the shady side, ie south in most of the country, but this changes up north in summer.
Double doored screen perhaps?
I visited the Cairns Ap BoM station during an open day thru the mid 90's. It appeared then that the screen was fixed into position with only one door which faced toward the south.

I actually asked the observer about screen orientation that day (just installed my own personal one at home) & he said it was standard in the southern hemisphere for the door to open toward the south!
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#1022 - 08/01/2008 07:43 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
ZimdaN Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 06/01/2008
Posts: 7
Loc: Weipa, QLD
Quote:
Originally posted by teckert:
The Cloncurry temp is not offically recorded as the highest temp though. Oodnadatta's temp is the official highest in Australia.

To quote NOAA - "This temperature [Cloncurry] was measured using the techniques available at the time of recording, which are different to the standard techniques currently used in Australia. The most likely Australian high-temperature record using standard equipment is an observation of 50.7C (123F) recorded at Oodnadatta in 1960."
Hi everyone, thanks to the admins for authorising my registration.

With regards to this, most books do acknoledge this temperature as being Australias highest. Even the road sign going into Cloncurry reads "A warm welcome" wink

http://travel.webshots.com/photo/1304587891036531453BBiKYD

As for it getting over 50c this year it is a real possibility, although the whole east coast is quite saturated at the moment so it would leave the kimberley or pilbara regions to take the gauntlet. Possibly around coober pedy also.
We shall be on the lookout!

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#1023 - 08/01/2008 09:59 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
teckert Offline
Weatherzone Moderator

Registered: 27/05/2001
Posts: 17524
Loc: NE suburbs, Adelaide, South Au...
Most books dont realise that its not official.... or were published before it was made unofficial...

Cloncurry have kept that sign up despite knowing they dont hold the record. They kicked up a fuss I recall a few years back when they tried to re-install the record as official to keep their town 'hottest in Australia'... :rolleyes:

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#1024 - 08/01/2008 10:58 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
pete28 Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 08/01/2007
Posts: 1114
Loc: Christchurch, New Zealand
I still think it was a real possibility that Cloncurry recorded that 53.1C temp even though stations a few hundred km's away were only recording temps in the mid 40's...there has been numerous examples of temperature variations right up to 10C between stations only 100km away or so, this leads me to believe it was a possibility, even if only a remote one...

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#1025 - 08/01/2008 13:46 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
Crozz Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 30/08/2002
Posts: 175
Loc: Perth
Quote:
Originally posted by teckert:

Cloncurry have kept that sign up despite knowing they dont hold the record. They kicked up a fuss I recall a few years back when they tried to re-install the record as official to keep their town 'hottest in Australia'... :rolleyes:
Not to drag this thread off topic but I think somewhere like Marble Bar deserves that distinction...

Annual ave maximum temp is 35.3C, which is close to the highest ave temp in Aus, but the brutal Summer temps and long runs of +100F days are what make the place famous. 160 days consecutive days as previously mentioned, back in 1930-something and its not uncommon to string 2 or 3 months above 100F in any given year. At the moment they haven't had a day below 100F since the 4th of November.

I think its the only site in Australia to record a monthly average of >44C for January a couple of years back...

The highest temp is only 49.2C, admittedly there are other spots in the Pilbara and near Lake Eyre that are at lower altitudes which are a better chance at scoring 50+... but they lack the consistency of Marble Bar at scoring consecutive 40C days.

Marble Bar averages 104 days above 40C. The next highest I could find was Fitzroy Crossing with 74 days and Telfer with 73 days. This compares to 45 days for Birdsville and 32 days at Oodnadatta.

No one has talked much about the apparent temps that include humidity... it would be interesting to see how many 50C apparent temps are recorded in Australia.

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#1026 - 08/01/2008 14:03 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
Long Road Home Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 08/10/2007
Posts: 8329
Loc: Northern Beaches Syd
I agree with ur last statement Crozz. I remember broome i think it was last summer or the summer before recorded an impressive 33/29 with a heat index of around 51 or 52. just recently, around a month ago, sweers island in the QLD gulf recorded a lovely 35/27 with a heat index of around 53C. Burketown came close, it was around 34/27 smile

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#1027 - 08/01/2008 14:08 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
rain gauge Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 16/02/2006
Posts: 4441
Loc: Gorokan NSW 4klm West of the ...
I just hope it never happens in penrith, tho we have come close at 46.0C on january 15th 2001, and that was bad enough eek
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#1028 - 08/01/2008 17:09 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
Grant Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 18/08/2002
Posts: 1522
Loc: Greta NSW, 70m ASL
I believe Wyndham was given the title of Australia's hottest place a few years ago by the BoM?

This was for the highest annual average temperature which takes into account minimum temperatures as well.
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#1029 - 08/01/2008 18:24 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
Crozz Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 30/08/2002
Posts: 175
Loc: Perth
I remember reading that too. I reckon Wyndham would feel be effected by the humidity in the summer too, making it even hotter frown

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#1030 - 09/01/2008 15:38 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
Rime Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/06/2001
Posts: 1444
Loc: Perth,WA
Quote:
Originally posted by Crozz:

I think its the only site in Australia to record a monthly average of >44C for January a couple of years back...
There is actually quiet a few locations in the Pilbara that have recorded a 44C or higher mean monthly maximum. The last place was Marble Bar in February 2007. Emu Creek, Telfer, Paraburdoo and Pannawonica all have recorded months with mean maximums in the 44 - 45C range at one stage or another.

EDIT: Thinking of this heat in the Pilbara makes me feel very lucky that I am only in Alice Springs. We are presently on the 7th consecutive day above 40C. This is about as worse as it gets in Alice. Compare this to the Pilbara and it makes Alice look like a mild heatwave in Hobart. Marble Bar had a total of 52 consecutive days above 40C last summer.

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#1031 - 09/01/2008 20:34 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
zoso-wx Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 16/09/2005
Posts: 644
Loc: Bakewell on the escarpment, st...
I'm possibly pulling this out of a very dark place but I think the record for mean monthely max in Aust was set at Nyang (Emu Creek) at sometime in the last 10 years. I know Marble Bar came within .5 or less of breaking that in Feb last year. Also, I think I posted this last year, Marble Bar had something like 4 or 5 days under 40 from early Oct to late April, and about 2 under 38 due to TC cloudage. Their record, which I reckon has been bested in several places in the middle east (Mecca area esp), would have been bettered but for those couple of days.

They are going for a range of 32-47 tomorrow, a forecast that high means 48-49 is possible in the lower elevations in that area (though 182m is hardly high I guess laugh ). Also 850s tomorrow over a LARGE area of SA and inland WA are up around the 30 mark with a peak around 32-33 iirc, that means serious heat tomorrow, hope the snakes, dingos and roos wear sunscreen.

:cheers:

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