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#992 - 04/01/2008 19:51 Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
TranslucidusW Offline
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Registered: 18/11/2003
Posts: 2662
Loc: Southern Adelaide
Well here we are on 4th January 2008. NT is battening down for Cyclone Helen, Northern NSW is experiencing Floods and severe weather on the east coast, Southern WA has some bad bush fires and SA is experiencing temps in the 40's. I don't think it's snowing anywhere at the moment confused

Here in SA and in other states we have seen Fire bans in effect earlier than in any other year.

AUSTRALIA - HIGHEST RECORDED TEMPERATURE:
Oodnadatta, South Australia 50.7 C (123.3 F) on the 2nd January, 1960.

I'm wondering if Australia will see 50C this year.
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#993 - 04/01/2008 19:59 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
cyclonecece Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 08/01/2007
Posts: 7823
Loc: Brandon.. QLD..EX Karratha
Highest recorded temperature in Australia:, 53 Degrees Celsius Cloncurry QLD.i just found this as well

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#994 - 04/01/2008 20:05 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
teckert Offline
Weatherzone Moderator

Registered: 27/05/2001
Posts: 17491
Loc: NE suburbs, Adelaide, South Au...
The Cloncurry temp is not offically recorded as the highest temp though. Oodnadatta's temp is the official highest in Australia.

To quote NOAA - "This temperature [Cloncurry] was measured using the techniques available at the time of recording, which are different to the standard techniques currently used in Australia. The most likely Australian high-temperature record using standard equipment is an observation of 50.7C (123F) recorded at Oodnadatta in 1960."

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#995 - 04/01/2008 20:21 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
cyclonecece Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 08/01/2007
Posts: 7823
Loc: Brandon.. QLD..EX Karratha
oh sorry,should have read it a bit better

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#996 - 04/01/2008 20:52 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
Rime Offline
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Registered: 07/06/2001
Posts: 1444
Loc: Perth,WA
Australia has not had 50C or higher temp since February 1998 when Mardie reached 50.5C. I believe some other localities in the Pilbara got to 50C (rounded) since then, but did not quiet break the 50 mark.

I do not expect 2008 to break the 50C. I thought last summer it would have done so considering the amount of widespread heat. Typically, for the temperature to get to that extreme, the interior and the NW of the continent have to be cloud free for a prolonged period of time in order to generate enough potential energy to push the temperatures up. So far this summer the monsoons have been too active for this to happen. The heatwaves experienced in the south over the last few weeks are a result of the equatorial trough displacing the extreme heat from the interior to the south. The normally hotter regions of Australia like the centre and northern WA, have only been average to slightly below average.

On an interesting note, I think it is funny that Australia is willing to except that our extreme temperatures prior to WW2 are known to be a bit suspect, but the US and many other countries of the world do not hold there own records to the same level of scrutiny. The US record of 56.7C recorded at Death Valley in 1933 would most likely not pass either if it went through the same scrutiny as our records.

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#997 - 04/01/2008 21:49 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
Nev Offline
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Registered: 21/10/2006
Posts: 612
Loc: Waiheke Island, Auckland, NZ
Yes, apparently Oodnadatta is the highest Australian 'Stevenson screen observation', with Mardie and Wilcannia (50.0C on 11th Jan, 1939) the only other two above 50.

According to Blair Trewin, the Cloncurry temperature "appears to have been measured in an improvised screen consisting of a beer crate attached to a south-facing wall, which appears to have worked reasonably well for most of the year but over-read maximum temperatures by approximately 4-5 degrees during the 6 weeks or so each year when the sun is south of overhead at Cloncurry".

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#998 - 04/01/2008 21:52 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
BD (Bucketing Down) Offline
Member

Registered: 12/04/2006
Posts: 1799
Loc: Eastern Adelaide Hills, SA
From what I read not that long ago, Cloncurry had been re-instated as the hottest temp in Australia?!

By the way Trans that date you have just brought up for Oodnadatta was the day of 48.7C at Port Augusta, and the day after the Advertiser stating that people at Leigh Creek saw birds drop dead from the sky in flight in the heat during that shocking hot day!

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#999 - 04/01/2008 22:02 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
teckert Offline
Weatherzone Moderator

Registered: 27/05/2001
Posts: 17491
Loc: NE suburbs, Adelaide, South Au...
Blair will hopefully clear it up (again) when he can, but this subject did come up a few mths ago on the austpac-wx list. Haha... I just realised I quoted from your email in that Nev.... wink
But from that conversation, it appears that Oodnadatta is still the offical hottest (and by rights it should be)

Blair also added that...
"Incidentally, another piece of evidence has recently turned up in the form of the newly digitised daily data from Boulia, which did have a Stevenson screen at the time (when I wrote the original paper I had only monthly means for Boulia, although I had daily data for Winton which used a similar screen to Cloncurry). Boulia's maximum on the day of Cloncurry's supposed 53.1 was 46.7, further reinforcing the likelihood that 47 +/- 1 is a reasonable estimate of Cloncurry's 'Stevenson screen' temperature on that day (normally in extreme heat situations in summer the two sites have similar temperatures)."

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#1000 - 04/01/2008 22:10 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
Blair Trewin Offline
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Registered: 13/07/2001
Posts: 3687
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
The status of Cloncurry is a rather blurred issue which probably won't be fully resolved any time soon. In addition to what Nev's posted, some further evidence that it was several degrees too high is that some recently digitised data from Boulia (where a Stevenson screen was already in use) had a maximum of "only" 46.7 that day.

There were a number of other exceptionally high readings a fair way south during the 1960 event, including 49.4 at Whyalla, the furthest south such a high temperature has occurred in Australia, and probably the world. (This stat came out when investigating whether the Hyden 48.6 last year held that distinction).

The WMO has appointed Randy Cerveny from Arizona State University to look at verifying global records (some of you may have seen his website). I agree that the Death Valley 56 looks decidedly dodgy and the supposed world record (58) in Libya even more so - having seen a paper which looks at the synoptic situation and conditions at nearby Tripoli (and bearing in mind that late September is hardly the optimal time for such an extreme), I find it hard to believe that it was much above the mid 40s. I've had a look at some likely hotspots in recent years and haven't seen anything higher than 54. (If you like to follow such things, good spots to look at, in addition to Death Valley, are In Salah (Algeria) and Jacobabad (Pakistan)).

The air mass currently over WA is probably almost hot enough to generate a 50 at sea level, but isn't over anywhere that's near sea level. (The 47.4 at Cunderdin yesterday converts to 49.6 at sea level, assuming a dry adiabatic lapse rate). From the limited sample available, a 49 in Australia is probably about a one in 5-year event, and a 50 a one in 30 year event.

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#1001 - 04/01/2008 22:18 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
TranslucidusW Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 18/11/2003
Posts: 2662
Loc: Southern Adelaide
from: http://www.australiaeguide.com.au/weather.php
On the topic of climate, some of the Australian records are interesting and surprising. For example, which capital city has recorded the highest temperature? When asked this question, many people guess Darwin. However, in fact all of the other seven capital cities, even Hobart (40.8C, 105.4F), have recorded higher temperatures than Darwins 40.5C (104.9F) on 17th October 1892.

The capital city with the highest temperature is actually Adelaide with 47.6C (117.7F) on 12th January 1939.
The highest temperature ever recorded anywhere in Australia was 53.1C (127.6F) in Cloncurry, Queensland on 16th January 1889. In recent years, the validity of this record has been challenged, since it was a while ago and the equipment used would not satisfy todays standards. However, most people still regard this as the record. The Meteorological Office, however, is prepared to vouch only for the 50.7C (123.3F) recorded in Oodnadatta, South Australia on 2nd January 1960.

Marble Bar in Western Australia claims a world record by having recorded 160 consecutive days with a temperature of over 100F (37.8C), from 31st October 1923 until 7th April 1924.

The coldest capital city, as one might expect, is Canberra, since it is inland and at an altitude of approximately 550 metres. It recorded -10C (14F) on 11th July 1971.

The lowest temperature ever recorded in Australia was -23C (-9.4F) at Charlotte Pass, New South Wales on 29th June 1994.

Highest Adelaide Temperature recorded (West Terrace): 47.6C on 12 January 1939
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#1002 - 04/01/2008 23:03 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
supercell9 Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 17/01/2004
Posts: 224
Loc: Eltham ne Melbourne
Good post TranslucidusW, You are certainly right,. I guess many would not believe that Hobart's record daily maximum is hotter than that of Darwin!
What about Mildura's record of 50.8C! Is that still current?
If not what is Victoria's highest recorded temperature?

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#1003 - 04/01/2008 23:23 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
Nev Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 21/10/2006
Posts: 612
Loc: Waiheke Island, Auckland, NZ
47.2C at Mildura on Jan 10th, 1939 (I think?)

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#1004 - 05/01/2008 01:22 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
norfolk Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 28/06/2003
Posts: 2951
Loc: Caroline Springs vic.
Quote:
Originally posted by Rime:
I think it is funny that Australia is willing to except that our extreme temperatures prior to WW2 are known to be a bit suspect,
Ok, then I am confused if we say that extreme temps prior to WW2 to be known as suspect, do we disregard Melbourne's record of 45.6c on 13th Jan 1939 as suspect?

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#1005 - 05/01/2008 06:36 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
Helen Offline
Moderator

Registered: 07/11/2001
Posts: 9642
Loc: Mid North, SA
Good question Norfolk. One would then have to suspect that any recording prior to WW2 including the Adelaide record, would be in doubt.
_________________________
2017 YTD - 67.8mm Yearly Average - 403mm
Jan - 32.8mm (10mm) / Feb - 35.0mm (10mm) / Mar - - (15mm) / Apr - - (31mm)
May - - (46mm) / June - - (51mm) / July - - (59mm) / Aug - - (54mm)
Sept - - (48mm) / Oct - - (38mm) / Nov - - (23mm) / Dec - - (18mm)
Total 2016 - 637.2mm



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#1006 - 05/01/2008 08:50 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
BD (Bucketing Down) Offline
Member

Registered: 12/04/2006
Posts: 1799
Loc: Eastern Adelaide Hills, SA
That Whyalla 49.4C on the 1960 date was with a northerly breeze, the 48.7C at Port Augusta was with a weak SSE'ly sea-breeze all day, having been a young lad at Port Augusta at the time and interested in the weather even at that early age!There were plenty of readings that day all around SA in the 47 to 49C range, and the 50C plus at Oodnadatta was not the only 50C temp max reported for that day!
If it was 100F+(37.8C+) by 9am(non daylight saving then), you knew it was going to be a very hot day in Port Augusta, and it was ussually 100F+(37.8C+) at 9pm at night on a very hot day also up there!
Another day that sticks in my mind as a young lad was a 117.6F(47.6C) day with a howling northerly and thick sand & dust all day, visibility about 10m gave way to strong gale force westerly with a brief shower of rain and mud in the late afternoon, then swinging to a gale force easterly with large hail of 20C piece size, and then returning to more blowing sand and dust!
Another day that I remember well was when we had a similar huge dust and sand storm, dust through all the house. My mother cleaned it all up that night as the cool change came in, only to see it repeat itself the next day with another huge sand and dust storm, and dust through all the house once again!

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#1007 - 05/01/2008 09:08 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
David_dup1 Offline
Member

Registered: 27/12/2002
Posts: 1296
Loc: Ferny Creek (400m)
Post (about) 1910 most temperatures were taken in Stevenson Screens and are reliable (though with some exceptions). Before then, the recordings were taken in all manner of instrument exposures. Some of these were very creative - looking like chook sheds, sometimes just odd - like inside bedrooms with open windows etc. The Cloncurry number is meaningless for comparison with current measurements as it was taken under a veranda in a open box with sun shining onto the thermometers. The recordings are correct, they just aren't shade temperatures they are temperatures in a box under a veranda with sun on the thermometers. I've never run the experiment but would imagine 60C+ quite possible in the hottests parts of SA/WA using this type of exposure.

Cloncurry is also not a credible place for such a high temperature record being too far north and too high. Blair wrote and excellent analysis of Cloncurry some years back, while Neville Nicholls and Simon Torok (plus others) have written extensively about the early methods for recording temperature.

BTW will be interesting to see the 9am reports from WA as its quite possible that it got to 49C at Gascoyne Junction. I reckon we are about a 25% chance for a 50C this year given the strength of the monsoon and the large distance between the upper ridge/heat lows and the monsoon trough.

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#1008 - 05/01/2008 09:41 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
Helen Offline
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Registered: 07/11/2001
Posts: 9642
Loc: Mid North, SA
Thanks for that David. A bit like my first recordings here (46.5C, Jan. 25, 2003), which were under shelter, but none were taken in a Stevenson screen and therefore rather suspect. The temps were still darn hot though and in good comparison with that of Pirie on the day.

Noted on Channel 9 news the other night was the interest snippet that Adeliade's yearly average temp is still steadily on the increase, 2007 being the hottest so far and I guess one could summise that a good proportion of the rest of SA has followed suit.

I would also say that SA is in with a chance of 50C+. Jan 1, 2008 was certainly a scorcher here at 44.4C (stevenson screen reading), so somewhere else getting hotter is definitely on the cards IMHO. smile
_________________________
2017 YTD - 67.8mm Yearly Average - 403mm
Jan - 32.8mm (10mm) / Feb - 35.0mm (10mm) / Mar - - (15mm) / Apr - - (31mm)
May - - (46mm) / June - - (51mm) / July - - (59mm) / Aug - - (54mm)
Sept - - (48mm) / Oct - - (38mm) / Nov - - (23mm) / Dec - - (18mm)
Total 2016 - 637.2mm



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#1009 - 05/01/2008 11:42 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
TranslucidusW Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 18/11/2003
Posts: 2662
Loc: Southern Adelaide
Great story BD about PA. I have friends there and the still tell similar stories now - must spend a year there sometime


Quote:
Originally posted by supercell9:
Good post TranslucidusW, You are certainly right,. I guess many would not believe that Hobart's record daily maximum is hotter than that of Darwin!
What about Mildura's record of 50.8C! Is that still current?
If not what is Victoria's highest recorded temperature?
Well I drove through Mildura once on to Wagga Wagga; pulled into a motel where it was 48C in the shade - couldn't function so my question is:

Are Humans capable of reading thermometers acurately at those temperatures ? laugh
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#1010 - 05/01/2008 13:32 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
petethemoskeet Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 13/08/2003
Posts: 1250
Loc: toowoomba
On the weather channel they stated that it got to 48C yesterday in Gascoyne Junction WA and predicted 48 in Paraburdoo today

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#1011 - 05/01/2008 13:51 Re: Will we see 50 degrees celsius again in Australia
Blair Trewin Offline
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Registered: 13/07/2001
Posts: 3687
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Gascoyne Junction came in at 48.3.

The Adelaide 47.6 was in an open Glaisher stand. At the time a Stevenson screen was running in parallel with the Glaisher stand (this was done for about 60 years, giving us a great comparison) and recorded 46.1, which is what is in our database.

Victoria's an interesting one. The highest in our digitised daily data is the Mildura 47.2 mentioned earlier. The highest we know of which was definitely in a Stevenson screen was a 48.3 at Boort, also during January 1939. The 50.7 at Mildura in 1906 and the 49.4 at Swan Hill in 1908 were definitely not in Stevenson screens, and there are also values in the upper 48s from Horsham and Wycheproof where we suspect they weren't in Stevenson screens but don't have firm evidence one way or the other.

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