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#1195308 - 23/05/2013 12:53 Re: The Alternative Energy Scam? [Re: ROM]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 12708
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
EU Commission Plans Fundamental Course Change In Energy Policy – More Focus On Economics, Less On Climate

By P Gosselin on 21. Mai 2013
http://notrickszone.com/

EU CommissionMajor German dailies today are reporting that Europe is beginning to give up on the big green dream it once so deeply cherished and envisioned a great society powered by clean sunshine and wind. After trying for years to force renewable energies onto consumers, the bill came and eyes popped.

Suddenly we are also seeing studies showing that warming won’t be so bad after all, and that CO2 climate sensitivity is much lower than first thought. The policy-making pressure coming from the threat of climate change is disappearing rapidly.

The German leftist TAZ and center-right Die Welt report today that the EU Commission is preparing to embark on a policy to make energy prices lower, and to push climate protection measures off the stage.

The TAZ writes that the “EU Commission is preparing a fundamental change of course in energy policy. Because of the recession in many countries, state and government leaders are to undertake a paradigm change at their summit in Brussels on Wednesday“.

The overall sentiment is expressed, for example, by statements from EU Commissar Günther Oettinger, who told Die Welt:


Over the last decades Germany has continuously made energy more expensive with taxes, levies, fees, and contributions. That now has to change.”

The high energy prices have taken a toll as companies are finding it more difficult than ever to compete globally. The TAZ writes:




Indeed because of the economic weakness in many EU countries, climate change no longer has any priority for the Commission. The sole target of getting 20% of energy demand from renewable sources has been pushed off further. Commission officials are backed by a paper from the mighty European industrial association: Business Europe. According to the study, energy costs for Europe’s concerns are 1.5 to 3 times higher than the USA.

If 400,000 new jobs in the sector of production are to be created, then the EU ‘has to overhaul its climate protection and energy policy,’ said Europe-Business-President Jürgen Thumann.”

So why is energy so much more expensive in Europe than it is in USA? The TAZ writes that this is primarily due to the fact that USA is “exploiting its shale gas reserves using controversial fracking“. The TAZ adds:


According to the EU Commission, energy prices in the EU have risen 37% since 2005. In the USA that have even dropped slightly.

The EU Commission maintains that the following guideline has to apply: ”EU energy policy has to assure uninterrupted supply of households and companies, affordable and competitive prices.”

When it comes to the clash between economics and climate protection, it appears economics is emerging as the most pressing.
_________________________
lexDyscis luRe!!
Scientific knowledge is always tentative and subject to revision. The entire history of science is littered with discarded theories once thought to be incontrovertible truths. Prof David Deming

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#1195312 - 23/05/2013 13:11 Re: The Alternative Energy Scam? [Re: ROM]
SBT Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 07/02/2007
Posts: 12708
Loc: Townsville Dry Tropics
Yes YS and not one Watt of base load power was produced by your whirly gigs - brilliant effort that and as to private funding we both know that they wouldn't exist with out being heavily subsidised by state and federal governments.

Conventional power suppliers get subsidies to ensure continuous supply, not to prop them up when they can't supply power.

(1) http://www.ret.gov.au/energy/energy_security/Pages/EnergySecurity.aspx
Energy Security:



Energy security


What is energy security?

Energy security is about Australia’s ability to meet the energy needs of the Australian community and industry—both in the short and in the long term.

The energy sector is fundamental to Australia’s functioning and prosperity. It underpins every form of economic activity from powering our industries to turning on the lights in our homes. The secure supply of energy is essential to economic growth, jobs, and the prosperity and wellbeing of all Australians.

In an Australian context, energy security is defined as the adequate, reliable and competitive supply of energy where:
adequacy is the provision of sufficient energy to support economic and social activity
reliability is the provision of energy with minimal disruptions to supply
competitiveness is the provision of energy at an affordable price which does not adversely impact on the competitiveness of the economy and which supports continued investment in the energy sector.

Factors affecting the supply of energy include issues such as short-term disruptions to supplies as a result of human and natural hazards, or longer-term impacts resulting from inadequate energy sector investment.

There is also a growing recognition of the importance of building resilience against hazards and balancing reliable energy supplies and environmental impacts.

How is RET involved?

The Department of Resources, Energy and Tourism (RET) is engaged in a number of initiatives to help ensure energy security in Australia.

In 2011 RET released the National Energy Security Assessment (NESA) which considers the key influences on the supply of energy in Australia in the short, medium and long terms covering the period 2011–2035.

The NESA provided a key input into the development of future energy policy including the Energy White Paper.

The department is also engaged in emergency response and critical infrastructure protection initiatives.



You might want to dig a little deeper so here is a link with even more scenario papers. http://www.ret.gov.au/energy/energy_secu...Assessment.aspx
_________________________
lexDyscis luRe!!
Scientific knowledge is always tentative and subject to revision. The entire history of science is littered with discarded theories once thought to be incontrovertible truths. Prof David Deming

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#1195324 - 23/05/2013 14:01 Re: The Alternative Energy Scam? [Re: SBT]
@_Yasified_shak Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 07/03/2009
Posts: 2212
Loc: El Arish
i don't know about that, but these few would not instill me with any deal of confidence for "baseload power" either... whistle

Hallett GT has a capacity of 228MW in the last year 11/12 it generated a total of 8GW of power....

Mintaro has a capacity of 190MW in the last year 11/12 it generated a total of 6GW of power....

Dry Creek has a capacity of 156MW in the last year 11/12 it generated a total of 3GW of power....

Port Lincoln GT has a capacity of 74W in the last year 11/12 it generated a total of 1GW of power....

Snuggery has a capacity of 63W in the last year 11/12 it generated a total of 0GW of power....

5 gas fired power stations with a total capacity of 711 MW and have only generated 18GWH of power in the 11/12 year? and before you say "oh they must have had a bad year or he cherry picked figures..."
well nope! those figure have not varied by much over the past 5 years (with the exception of Quarantine producing it's highest figure of 295GWH 09/10)

So even one "whirlygig" farm grin (Starfish Hill Wind Farm) with a capacity of only 35MW still managed to produce 85GWH of power in the 11/12 year, which is nearly 5 times the amount that 5 gas power power stations produced combined together. evillaugh
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Rainfall 2013
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Why is it in the era of "Time saving" devices, that people are more "Time poor" than ever?


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#1195394 - 23/05/2013 20:38 Re: The Alternative Energy Scam? [Re: SBT]
Petros Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 30/12/2002
Posts: 4194
Loc: Maffra, Central Gippsland, Vi...
Originally Posted By: SBT
YS the difference between the 20% from wind and 30% from coal is that within minutes a coal fired power station can increase output where as you basic whirly gig can only produce power a)if the wind is blowing, b)at a high enough speed, c)in the right direction and d)for long enough.

Wind is useless as a base load source and until it can produce a base load source it is a fantasy for you or anyone else to think it is a viable alternative to coal or conventional power sources.

Tear the bloody things down, rehabilitate the land, give it back to the primary producers and stop wasting my tax dollars propping up what has to be the worlds largest white elephant.

Must point out SBT, that when you are considering wind speed being "high enough" - did you know that when the wind speed gets about 40 Km/Hr (based on my observations of the Wonthiggi wind farm most of last year)- they just feather their blades and come to standstill.

…. And another thing that can happen (as I personally observed at Wonthaggi last year)… is that when gust front comes through, a propeller blade can break off and drape itself over the manacle!!!


Edited by Petros (23/05/2013 20:39)

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#1195490 - Yesterday at 15:33 Re: The Alternative Energy Scam? [Re: ROM]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6428
Some time ago in this thread when we were still actually discussing the role or otherwise of Alternative Energies in the global energy system I posted of Rossi's E-Cat reactor.
Andrea Rossi claims to have achieved "Low Energy Nuclear Fusion" or sometimes known as Cold Fusion , a concept which got a very bad name after the failure of Fleischmann and Pons to substantiate their claims of having achieved Cold Fusion or" Muon-catalyzed fusion" back in 1989.

Rossi, if the most recent very thorough research of the output of his E-Cat reactor may now have achieved cold fusion with his E-Cat reactor.
I still have serious reservations about Rossi's claims but those reservations are getting a lot harder to sustain as more and deeper and harder examinations of Rossi's E-Cat reactor seem to confirm his claims.

If eventually fully confirmed and the limitations of the technology don't limit it's use then it is this type of break through in the various disciplines and technologies, breakthroughs that may only occur once a generation, is what drives our technological society and gives another boost to humanity enabling us to lift even more of our numbers out of poverty and into a better life. through refining and improving the ability to deliver cheap, always on, always available energy in the amounts that are required by our society, something that so far all the so called Renewable or Alternative energy sources other than Hydro power have all failed totally to demonstrate that they can do.

If proven out and that could be within another couple of years Rossi's reactor could be the first of a completely new technologically advanced energy production system that just might have, along with Lockheed Martin's Skunk Works fusion reactor technology if LM can crack Fusion as they claim they will by around 2017, given the world a completely new low polluting, theoretically unlimited in time and amount, source of energy.

There are a number of sources on the web that are commenting on the latest research and testing of the Rossi reactor.

The actual peer reviewed paper on the latest tests of Rossi'e E-Cat reactor from the researchers can be found here ;

Indication of anomalous heat energy production in a reactor device containing hydrogen loaded nickel powder.

Abstract;
Quote:
An experimental investigation of possible anomalous heat production in a special type of reactor tube named E-Cat HT is carried out.
The reactor tube is charged with a small amount of hydrogen loaded nickel powder plus some additives. The reaction is primarily initiated by heat from resistor coils inside the reactor tube.
Measurement of the produced heat was performed with high-resolution thermal imaging cameras, recording data every second from the hot reactor tube. The measurements of electrical power input were performed with a large bandwidth three phase power analyzer.
Data were collected in two experimental runs lasting 96 and 116 hours, respectively.
An anomalous heat production was indicated in both experiments.
The 116-hour experiment also included a calibration of the experimental set-up without the active charge present in the E-Cat HT. In this case, no extra heat was generated beyond the expected heat from the electric input.

Computed volumetric and gravimetric energy densities were found to be far above those of any known chemical source. Even by the most conservative assumptions as to the errors in the measurements, the result is still one order of magnitude greater than conventional energy sources.


Conclusion
Quote:
The two test measurements described in this text were conducted with the same methodology on two different devices: a first prototype, termed E-Cat HT, and a second one, resulting from technological improvements on the first, termed E-Cat HT2.
Both have indicated heat production from an unknown reaction primed by heat from resistor coils. The results obtained indicate that
energy was produced in decidedly higher quantities than what may be gained from any conventional source. In the March test, about 62 net kWh were produced, with a consumption of about 33 kWh, a power density of about 5.3 · 105, and a density of thermal energy of about 6.1 ·
107 Wh/kg. In the December test, about 160 net kWh were produced, with a consumption of 35 kWh, a power density of about 7 · 103 W/kg and a thermal energy density of about 6.8 · 105 Wh/kg.
The difference in results between the two tests may be seen in the overestimation of the weight of the charge in the first test (which was comprehensive of the weight of the two metal caps sealing the cylinder), and in the manufacturer’s choice of keeping temperatures under control in the second experiment to enhance the stability of the operating cycle.
In any event, the results obtained place both devices several orders of magnitude outside the bounds of the Ragone plot region for chemical sources.
Even from the standpoint of a “blind” evaluation of volumetric energy density, if we consider the whole volume of the reactor core and the most conservative figures on energy production, we still get a value of (7.93 ± 0.8) 102 MJ/Liter that is one order of magnitude higher than any
conventional source.
Lastly, it must be remarked that both tests were terminated by a deliberate shutdown of the reactor, not by fuel exhaustion; thus, the energy densities that were measured should be considered as lower limits of real values.

The March test is to be considered an improvement over the one performed in December, in that various problems encountered in the first experiment were addressed and solved in the second one. In the next test experiment which is expected to start in the summer of 2013, and will last about six months, a long term performance of the E-Cat HT2 will be tested.
This test will be crucial for further attempts to unveil the origin of the heat phenomenon observed so far.


Rather than post much more here i would suggest that if interested, you have a look at the paper as listed above.

Comments on the both the tests and the technology are to be found at the Chiefio's blog

E-Cat Found To Work By Independent Investigators

At Forbes;

Finally! Independent Testing Of Rossi's E-Cat Cold Fusion Device: Maybe The World Will Change After All

And at the E-Cat World blog.

Lots of interesting things happening in the global energy scene and it doesn't need some sort of vicious campaign demanding the destruction of our present energy sources to achieve these new and possible break through energy technologies.
Rather it comes from people who are attempting to create something new and good instead of just viciously trying to destroy what is already there.

And it all comes down to Just the allure of achieving something nobody else has done and apparently can't do and the rewards of recognition and possible wealth that lays at the end for the success for.developers of any radical new technology.
Perhaps Rossi has achieved the energy system that will lead to the transformation of our global energy systems .

We can only hope this is the case and it's not all a gigantic con job, something that is looking less and less likely as more and harder examinations and comprehensive tests of Rossi's E-Cat reactor and his claims are made.

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#1195531 - Yesterday at 19:43 Re: The Alternative Energy Scam? [Re: ROM]
ROM Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 29/01/2007
Posts: 6428
A correction to my post above;
Quote:
The actual peer reviewed paper on the latest tests of Rossi'e E-Cat reactor from the researcher

The Rossi E-Cat paper above was lodged with the Cornell university "arXiv.org/ which is an electronic pre-print open source for science papers. arXiv.org does not require peer review in the accepted usual sense .
If the E-cat paper wasn't peer reviewed at the time it was lodged at "arXiv" it certainly has been by now, being available on an open and public science archiving site,


For info on "arXiv.org". From Wiki;
The arXiv (pronounced "archive", as if the "X" were the Greek letter Chi, χ) is an archive for electronic preprints of scientific papers in the fields of mathematics, physics, astronomy, computer science, quantitative biology, statistics, and quantitative finance which can be accessed online. In many fields of mathematics and physics, almost all scientific papers are self-archived on the arXiv. On October 3, 2008, arXiv.org passed the half-million article milestone.[2] The preprint archive turned 20 years old on August 14, 2011.[3] By 2012 the submission rate has grown to more than 7000 per month.

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#1195555 - Yesterday at 23:30 Re: The Alternative Energy Scam? [Re: @_Yasified_shak]
Petros Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 30/12/2002
Posts: 4194
Loc: Maffra, Central Gippsland, Vi...
Originally Posted By: @_Yasified_shak
Quote:
Andrew Miskelly, who maintains the Wind farm performance page, informed me that he calculated a figure of 23.8% from the AEMO data.

So you think Voltage loss is only associated with wind turbines? infact on average a coal fired power station can loose anything between 2-10% of the exported power depending on the distance of the grid.
Do you think coal fired power station run consistently at 100% of capacity? i highly doubt that it would be much less, especially in the times when they are just sitting there “idling”
Lets look at loy yan 27.2% efficiency take into acc the 2-10% loss from the grid over distance and the figures don;t look to good either, add to the the 66,000 tones of coal a day that are burnt, the belching pollution being spewed out relentlessly and the 24 million litres of water a day that are used......

Originally Posted By: SBT
Carte Blanche closing of coal and other conventional power stations is a pipe dream as wind/solar/geothermal/tidal/hydro will never produce the amounts needed or in a constant supply.


In Nsw coal fired power totals abit over 11,000 MW and hydro comes in at over 4000MW of capacity, and don’t forget that hydro runs at between 95-98% efficiency compared to NSW coal fired plants with 33-35% efficiency.


Wow, where to start, just so many facts totally wrong. How can folk get away with this?


1. Power loss is relative to the power line length to the “node” (where the consumers use it). Doesn’t matter how big the power source is, the lines will be sized accordingly – hence loss is proportional to distance to consumer. NOT a good argument for wind generators, as sited in SA/Vic eh?

2. Coal fired power stations “especially in the times when they are just sitting there “idling”” – Yasi brown coal fired power stations are not by design, spending times sitting “idling”. Mind you that is a function that hydro generators are supreme at (can also provide voltage control ancillary service when doing so), a good case for more dams that I hope you would support. A brown coal fired power station must operate at > 60% boiler firing to operate continuously.

3. You compare 4,000MW of hydro capacity with 11,000MW of black coal capacity. You have FAR more confidence in future rainfall than me if you think that the 4,000 MW of Hydro generated power will be “there” for the >88% of the year that the 11,000MW of black coal capacity will be. Don’t you understand that hydro plants cant simply spill the water when you need your lights or caffe late heated? The water retention is regulated to cater for irrigation/river system management as first priority.

You quote “stuff” indefinitely. But you DO NOT KNOW A SHRED about the facts behind Australian power plant design or regulations for operation, this is VERY CLEAR from your posts.

I just hope that folk don’t read your continual posts and actually believe them.

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