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#51754 - 18/12/2002 21:37 Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings
Blizzard Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 31/03/2001
Posts: 10341
Loc: Blue Mountains
Here's a couple of shots from the days when Blackheath saw good snow. The owners of these pics are long time locals and they said these shots were taken about 35 years ago. I'm wondering if they were indeed shots from the 18th of July 1965? I think that was the year we had a pretty big fall, not as big as some but pretty big nonetheless, up to 40cm apparently. I think it snowed on three consecutive days from the 18th. Check the drift against the fence in the second shot and on the car bonnet on the first one. Sorry about the photo quality, the originals were pretty bad. Enjoy smile





I'd be interested if anyone had info on the weather patterns of the 1965 outbreak - ECL? The snow reminds me a bit of AM's shots from the ECL outbreak of 2001 around Taralga. Any older versions of a Blair Trewin out there, who kept notes back in the 60's?
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BoM Storm Spotter, snow chaser, webmaster for www.blackheathweather.com

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#51755 - 19/12/2002 00:16 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings
anewts Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 21/08/2002
Posts: 3343
Loc: Forestville, NSW
nice pic blizz....what a dump. if only we got those falls this year, and the last, ect...

Andrew

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#51756 - 19/12/2002 14:06 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings
Andrew Miskelly Offline
Weatherzone Webmaster

Registered: 15/11/2001
Posts: 3146
Loc: Mittagong, NSW
Good stuff.

I always enjoy this one from Crookwell railway station in 1904 during a less exceptional snowfall.

Despite the fact that the line is now unused (but being restored ) the station still stands exactly as you see it here, although the pine trees are a bit larger! It's great. I was over there the other day.


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#51757 - 19/12/2002 14:59 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings
Blizzard Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 31/03/2001
Posts: 10341
Loc: Blue Mountains
I like it. We can only hope another good dump will return. I've gotta say, I love old stations. There are some crackers around this country.
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BoM Storm Spotter, snow chaser, webmaster for www.blackheathweather.com

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#51758 - 19/12/2002 17:18 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings
Frosty_Mac Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/07/2002
Posts: 89
Loc: Guyra 1325m asl NE NSW/ Tallai...
Hey Linday.
Awesome photos!!!!!!!!!!
And Andrew, that shot of Crookwell is awesome too. I believe it has some snow there during the winter months. I have a photo of an iglo June 1965 at Guyra... only a small pic in the newspaper. Lets hope after a warm summer, that this winter will be exceptionally cold. I was amazing to here that snowfell on the 11th september at Wongbinda to the east of Guyra. It was reported on the local abc site for the new england.

cheers
Mac laugh

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#51759 - 20/12/2002 00:37 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings
majorowe Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 27/01/2002
Posts: 242
Loc: SE France
It's great to see them restoring the line. I can see them running into problems near Roslyn as I think the line runs through tree plantations and things. They may have to get permission to clear a bit of land. Would the line be on a State Rail land corridor or something?

What were you doing in Crookwell Andrew?

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#51760 - 20/12/2002 09:32 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings
Andrew Miskelly Offline
Weatherzone Webmaster

Registered: 15/11/2001
Posts: 3146
Loc: Mittagong, NSW
Most of the Goulburn to Crookwell line and the dismantled Roslyn to Taralga branch run through private property. You can still see where the latter ran but it's getting hard in places. It loosely followed the Great Dividing Range from Roslyn, around Willigam Hill, between Lodestone Hill and Mt McAlister and over to Taralga.

The people who are restoring the Crookwell line will need/are getting alot of cooperation from land owners, and the council as road crossings have been tarred/gravelled over in most places. There are also alot of sleepers to replace.

The only station building remaining on the Taralga branch is at Strathaird. You can see the remains of loading docks on others but there are no buildings left. Most stations on the Crookwell line are in similar condition.

The first (linked) pic below is Strathaird and the second is what remains of Taralga.



(Sorry about going off-topic Blizz, you guys have got me rambling... wink )

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#51761 - 20/12/2002 13:25 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings
Blizzard Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 31/03/2001
Posts: 10341
Loc: Blue Mountains
That's cool AM, for some reason I am into train stations myself. I think its the quietness and desertion and my love of old stuff. I first fell in love with the old Oberon station in the 1980's - I sometimes sit there at night with nothing but the mill smoke and lights to accompany me. The Taralga one is great, there is something about standing on old stations and imagining what transpired there...probably lots of steam and people getting on and off I guess laugh
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BoM Storm Spotter, snow chaser, webmaster for www.blackheathweather.com

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#51762 - 20/12/2002 14:06 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings
Blizzard Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 31/03/2001
Posts: 10341
Loc: Blue Mountains
Same event as the first one, around '65. Thanks to Adam for scanning his grans photos for me smile



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BoM Storm Spotter, snow chaser, webmaster for www.blackheathweather.com

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#51763 - 20/12/2002 14:14 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings
Andrew Miskelly Offline
Weatherzone Webmaster

Registered: 15/11/2001
Posts: 3146
Loc: Mittagong, NSW
Heh, there's absolutely no question that that was an ECL. That atmosphere must have been saturated! Lovin' it. smile

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#51764 - 20/12/2002 14:51 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings
Jon24 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 16/05/2002
Posts: 228
Loc: Greenwich North Shore
Great stuff!, is there no where you can view the charts for this cold out break of 65? I would love to see the setup that brought all this snow! I have pics back in the UK of the winter of 1963, they show drifts right up to and beyond the second floor windows of houses! Must scan them and post them on line sometime. smile

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#51765 - 20/12/2002 15:33 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings
Andrew Miskelly Offline
Weatherzone Webmaster

Registered: 15/11/2001
Posts: 3146
Loc: Mittagong, NSW
In a quick (unsuccessful) scan around for more information on this event I stumbled across this interesting piece entitled 'Snow in Australia : Trends and Variability' (of course relating to the Snowy Mountains).

In it he lists 1965 as a bad snow year which has no real bearing on the above event as the Snowy Mountains do relatively poorly out of ECL events anyway (in the 27/8/2001 ECL event Blizz mentions above, I was knee-deep in snow at home where Thredbo had little to nothing).

What was interesting though was the following (reasonably straight-forward) comment.

Quote:
Sydney MSL pressure was regressed against snow depth on the theory that "blocking" high pressure systems over the middle of New South Wales do not allow low pressure systems to move up out of the Australian Bight and over the Snowy's, thus reducing snowfall during the season. The high snowfall seasons of 1964, 1968, 1974, and 1981, all exhibited a Sydney MSL pressure June-Oct. average under 1014.5 hPa, often having months where the value was below 1010 hPa. The poor seasons of 1957, 1959, 1965, 1969, 1973, 1982 & 1983 all experienced an average of over 1016 hPa, with at least one month exceeding 1020 hPa, giving some credence to the theory.
Having read this, I ran a query to extract the average MSLP from Observatory Hill at 0900 from June to October (inclusive) this year and got a result of 1018.98 hPa which fits nicely. The highest average was 1022.59 hPa for August.

The thing to remember though about this year is that while it was pretty ordinary for those of us in central and northern parts of NSW, the Alps started of beautifully (in May/June) but 'dried up' dramatically after that.

Interesting stuff. The original document is worth a read.

Andrew.

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#51766 - 20/12/2002 15:53 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings
Andrew Miskelly Offline
Weatherzone Webmaster

Registered: 15/11/2001
Posts: 3146
Loc: Mittagong, NSW
Further to the above, the averages for the last few years have been:

2000 1018.55
2001 1018.49
2002 1018.98

He does describe the work as 'poxy' and 'undergraduate' at the top of the document. wink

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#51767 - 20/12/2002 16:29 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings
SnowJunkie Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 30/11/2002
Posts: 27
Loc: Blackheath in the Beautiful Bl...
Speaking of Old Ramblings and High Country Snow Pics (or is it the other way around?) :p .....
My husband and I moved up to Blackheath in 1993 when we retired. We always wanted to live in something resembling an alpine climate. During the cold outbreak in May 2000 we were in Brisbane visiting relatives mad mad mad mad I still remember sitting down and crying , and was inconsolable for ages afterwards. Even now if you ask me about it I will bore you to bits with my moanings.
Also, I have a photo of my husband with his foot on the top of a snow pole (taken in 1981 at Perisher). There is about 5 cm of pole sticking out of the ground. Aaahhhhhhh, those were the days. (Old cow reminiscing).

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#51768 - 20/12/2002 19:07 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings
flip Offline
Weatherzone Addict

Registered: 27/12/2001
Posts: 2536
Loc: Concord, Sydney
SnowJunkie, how high is the snow poll??

I remember going to perisher a few years back after a big dump (I think the snow height was around 250cm) and was digging tunnels in the snow. The skidoo was completely burried and took a day of digging to get it out.

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#51769 - 20/12/2002 20:08 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings
SnowJunkie Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 30/11/2002
Posts: 27
Loc: Blackheath in the Beautiful Bl...
Hi flip,
The snow poles are the orange thingys on the side of the road to show you where the road is under the snow. I think they are about 2.5m high.
It was a BIG winter in 1981.
Is there anyone here old enough to remember that far back? laugh laugh laugh

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#51770 - 20/12/2002 21:17 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings
filski Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 07/06/2001
Posts: 233
Loc: Brisvegas
Great shots! Interesting seeing the MSLP averages - note that 2000 was completely different to this year. A better correlation has been found with the Hobart readings rather than Sydney (Dave :cheers: ).

BTW - just posted them @ sno-info, I'm sure they'd appreciate them.

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#51771 - 20/12/2002 21:38 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings
Blizzard Offline
Meteorological Motor Mouth

Registered: 31/03/2001
Posts: 10341
Loc: Blue Mountains
Yeah, interesting reading Andrew. I've done a search myself but found nothing. 1984 according to an old Blair Trewin post from aussie-wx saw a good fall on the CT's.

Another old post from Don White includes this info, including typos wink

"...1. In recent times the greatest snow depth in the blue Mtns occurred in the event of 18-19 July 1965. Katoomba had 30 cms and Mt victoria 45 cms. On 1-9-1970, there was 25 cms at Mt Victoria, 23 in Blackheath and 15 cms at Wentworth Falls. Katoomba also had 30 cms on 5 July 1900 - no report avilable from Mt Victoria or Blackheath then. 2. In 1965, snow fell on 3 consecutive days and on 2 days in July 1900 3. no reliable detials avialable 4. Lowest temp ever in Katoomba -8.2 and -5.6 in Mt victoria. 5. Snow was reported in sproingwood (1 cm only) on 19 July 1965 Heavey snow covered Blue Mtns in 1834 and again in 1836. Both years quoted settlers in the Hawkesbury Valley reporting the hills to the west were white.

And another from Laurier...

"It was July 1965, Matthew -- around mid month from memory. It snowed in Katoomba from about 9am on a Saturday until about 4pm the next day,
with about 30 to 45cm of snow across the mountains. They brought some steam engines out of mothballs to try to clear the points and keep the
railway open, but power failures ultimately stopped everything. Roads were closed for several days. There was also a substantial snowfall in
August 1962..."

The aussie-wx list is acknowledged as this information source and can be joined here:

http://australiasevereweather.com/storm_news/aussiewx.htm

PS: How cold would the 850T's have been in Springwood for 1cm of snow in'65! I guess the pressure would have been right down with a whopping ECL lapping at the foothills smile .
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BoM Storm Spotter, snow chaser, webmaster for www.blackheathweather.com

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#51772 - 21/12/2002 10:31 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings
DaveV Offline
Weather Freak

Registered: 19/03/2002
Posts: 196
Loc: Mittagong - Southern Highlands...
Could not help myself but to add a snow picture to this great thread, here is a picture up your way blizzard of Clarence station c1913 just after the 10 tunnel deviation was completed, looks to be a good fall too, having just moved to a cooler climate myself (mittagong...hmmm, well cooler in winter anyway)am hoping to experience some cold weather here, and maybee do some experimental snowmaking as well.


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#51773 - 21/12/2002 10:43 Re: Old Snow Pics and High Country ramblings
Andrew Miskelly Offline
Weatherzone Webmaster

Registered: 15/11/2001
Posts: 3146
Loc: Mittagong, NSW
Sensational! laugh

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